The Exquisite Relationship Between the Sadist and the Masochist

Within some universal guidelines and exclusions, the philosophy that "your kink may not be my kink, and that's OK" is a standard to which all that I know as friends subscribe. It is pretty universally recognized that every relationship is unique and the details of it are best determined by those in it. Those that disagree with this perspective, especially if they are critical or intrusive, are usually not respected themselves and find it difficult or impossible to get along with most of those in our local community. I applaud the psychological community in general for being open minded and willing to objectively re-evaluate such potentially "hot" topics as bdsm.

Since my first comment we have attended a munch, joined a 3 million member website and learned much, including the fact that a little pain can bring a lot of pleasure for many, including myself. My daughter is a psychologist and asking her questions about the lifestyle in general safe to do since 50 I was so happy to hear that the psych community has a much better balanced and fair view than you seem to have had in your career.

Progress indeed, as changing the DSM does not always translate into changing minds. Thank you for sharing your life experience, increasing our comfort with our choice,and adding to the conversation. I actually had sexual relationships with gay BDSM men who were completely straight with me and there was no "playing" I am not into BDSM at all--and find my sex life very satisfying.

However, when anyone finds out that I am friends with people in BDSM they immediately try to start "working" on me. A lot of men I meet find my personality very dominant and expect me to dominate them. A lot of men I meet believe the hype about women as submissives and try to "work" pain and control on me into their fantasies. My problem with heterosexuals who claim BDSM is a wonderful way to live is that they dont understand how to respect other peoples boundaries who do not want to "play" with them.

Please stop calling people who are not into BDSM as plain or vanilla. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a painless and less complicated way of having sex with anyone. The range of activities that fit under the umbrella label of BDSM is huge and varied, and does certainly include painless and uncomplicated ways of having sex, or not. Sex is not necessarily a component of BDSM activities. There is nothing wrong with being vanilla or having simpler desires than others, and in fact the vast majority of people in this country do.

But, conversely, those who choose to spice up their relationships, in whatever way they voluntarily negotiate between themselves, have the right to do so. The people and behaviors you have described would not be tolerated in the groups we belong to. Respect of the limits and boundaries of others is not just expected within the communities we belong to, it is a necessity for them to continue to attend functions and not be "black balled" by those they are hoping to fit in with.

Sure, there are people out there who try to take advantage of others against their will, both male and female, and, whether they choose to use the label of BDSM or not, that is the difference between abusers and those dealing out of mutual respect. I feel like post of these people defending their vanilla sex lives are interpreting the word vanilla as derogatory. It is probably the least offensive way to say average or normal. Which IMO would probably cause more of an uproar. I can see it now! Will you read the posts from others and initiate yourself with the subject, then with your non objective contribution prove to us that we don't have to live in the closet.

Just my 2 cents. BDSM is dehumanizing for the sub and brutal, and it feeds the worst in the dom. Eve, when I was 14 I was raped by a boy I was dating. In that moment, I was degraded, hurt, humiliated and dehumanized. Even if he's spanking me with his hand, crop, paddle etc, if his hand is on my throat, or any myriad number of other things I won't get into at this time.

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What is the biggest difference between these two? And as the article stated, communication. If you asked any sub if they felt dehumanized, degraded or disrespected - I would doubt you would find one with an affirmative response to that question. Because consent, and explicit communication regarding wants and needs are critical to all relationships but BDSM especially. My Dom is a wonderfully sensitive man, who is also wonderfully harsh with his hands, crop, paddle, etc.

I fully agree with you Eve. Humiliation punishment and the like do not appear in my marriage. Nether does sex outside of marriage. BDSM is not right in itself. You can have immoral bdsm, cruel bdsm, perverted bdsm. Not that I don't have any kinks within my marriage but that is not to say that everything under the bdsm banner is good. I am a psychology student and before reading this, I got all the distorted conception about BDSM from the media. Thanks to this article, now I got a bigger picture as of what it is all about. It's a whole new level at looking at it now.

I am glad i have come to this page from google, thank you very much. In a feminized world,men become more dominant in the bedroom and failing to being a real hero in the world. How many of these 'dominant' men are actual leaders in the society.

Dominance and submission

I wonder if a real alpha male would consent to a BDSM lifestyle. The only way I can see a true dominant is with a real guy who acts as a leader in his life, but that's almost machine like, without having such an individual open up to you to his most personal sensitive side. There ought to be a balance. To be shown as a female that you are wanted only sexually and not emotionally, just feels like your being used, actually. I obviously can't speak to the experience of others, for myself, my partner is somewhat introverted except when it comes to our BDSM dynamic, whereas I am quite extroverted and an Alpha type.

For me, I don't feel used as a toy- our dynamic is a release for me where I do NOT feel the need to be in control of the situation and I prefer him to express his Alpha side. I believe that our society has become feminized to the point where men feel they need to walk on eggshells for fear of being persecuted for the crime of possessing a penis. In fact I love it. As women, we forget or refuse to acknowledge the we do inherently have a need to be possessed by our partner at our base.

There is nothing shameful or anti-feminist about wanting to be needed by a man. To be desired at that base level. I have a similar experience, Tany. My partner is a good man, secure in his masculinity, so he doesn't play alpha games with other men. He is low-key in public life, but very dominant behind closed doors. I believe it gives him a greater sense of control after a chaotic day.

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On the flip side of the coin, I am the head of household, have a job with responsibility, and a small child. I am buried in a mountain of red tape. It is a relief to be able to hand my well-being and pleasure into the hands of someone I literally trust with my life, and know that for a few hours I do not have to be in charge. My current partner is my second wife, and I cannot put into words how in love we are, or how compatible we are.

I cannot think of a single person I would rather spend my time with. While I have a colourful and extensive sexual history, she did not. She allowed her last partner to abuse her and honestly believed there was something wrong with her for not wanting sex.

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The first time I slept with her she orgasmed and cried afterwards because she honestly thought she could not orgasm. Three years on from then and she now loves to be spanked, held, choked very lightly , tied. Look after herself which she did not do in her last relationship and 2.

When we first started sleeping together the first thing I had to teach her was how to say 'No' to me. I had to explain, for example, that I did not expect head jobs, she felt that she had to give me head jobs because I went down on her every chance I got. I asked her if giving me head turned her on, and she admitted it was a huge turn off for her and she only did it because she felt 'Guilty'.

Not because she has too, but because being able to make me shudder turns her on! A few months back we were at a dinner party where a few couples were joking about how bad there sex lives were since having kids. My gorgeous sub said nothing, but just gave me a little smile with smouldering eyes, sadly there was a 'Baby sitter emergency' and we had to leave the party early The earth shattering orgasms are just a bonus.

The guy is trying waay too hard and why is it that all of his analogies are stereotypically male and inapplicable anyway? Besides - his sole preoccupation with 'pain' - ignores all sorts of 'sensation' play I know, this is pop-science, and as such one has little to no expectations in terms of rigorosity, but this article is especially stupid. Starting with its various unsubstantiated assumption. For one the study of sexuality and sexual arousal, and what can elicit it, cannot be studied in isolation from its evolutionary background.

Various sexual strategies across species, especially highly social species such as ours, may have very different results in terms of reproductive success. This in turn will lend itself to selection. If this is the case, considering the particular behaviour and self-reported at that of a particular sub-set of the population in question confers little to no reliable insight as a default. And continues by applying value judgements in regards of it. Very bad science indeed.

The article also has little to no grounding in neuro-cognitive science. In turn this will involve the sexual strategy one employs unconsciously. One does not need to colour the picture in order to accept it as it is or try to change it in as much as possible at a societal level. These do not follow automatically, for they are moral and utilitarian considerations, not scientific. Besides being hetero-normative and monoga-normitive, this article consistent conflates "bottom" and "submissive" as well as "top" and "dominant".

Critically, however, it falls prey to the tired old myth that the bottom is "in charge" because they have the ability to end the scene at any time. The top can also end the scene at any time! Does that make them both "in charge"? It's like saying that one partner is in charge of the tennis match or the dance because they can stop it at any time. BDSM scenes, like any other interaction, is best when all the participants are getting their needs needs in a fully consensual way. Ya know, it reveals a lot when people feel compelled to discuss what their sex lives are like. Most balanced societies acknowledge sex, have sex, and get on with their lives.

People who need to promote it, exhibit it, rhapsodize about it, form clubs for it, demand special attention and favor for it are clearly, just from this need to get everyone's attention, mentally imbalanced. They are emotionally delayed or stuck-they are like the child who feels everything he discovers is "new" and wants to be watched and praised.

But grown adults needing and demanding constant attention, wanting others to be amazed at their sexploits older than the hills clearly describes undeveloped personalities and emotional retardation. He has written about sexuality for 36 years. Brief erotic fantasies hours before lovemaking can help ignite later heat. In three recent reports, most users say cannabis enhances sex. Back Find a Therapist. What Is the Best Way to Propose? What's the Solution for a Coddled American Mind? Submitted by TraderX38 on June 15, - Safewords are for girls and ninnies.

The proper response to "Redlight! While I'll Submitted by Anonymous on August 19, - 3: Submitted by Libertine on March 18, - Necessity of safewords Submitted by Anonymous on March 23, - 6: Safe words Submitted by Anonymous on March 5, - 3: BDSM How does one learn to be a dominant? Submitted by Artist on April 4, - 3: Learning Submitted by Anonymous on November 18, - 4: Well put Submitted by Esinem on June 4, - 6: You really don't know what the "aim" is in my bedroom.

There isn't necessarily any "hurt" involved in BDSM. There is no "hurt" involved in my BDSM. Sex without whips and chains as boring, vanilla, and lacking real trust Submitted by Jen on October 8, - This sort of thing was once recognized as slavery and degradation, now it's just cute fun. Sweetums, you're in the majority. Submitted by Anonymous on October 13, - 9: Aw, you vanilla sexters are so maligned and misunderstood. Why would someone else feel pleasure by inflicting pain on another person? If I derive pleasure from physically hurting someone else, does that make me a bad person?

Very good questions, and there are equally good answers to this often-misunderstood aspect of the BDSM lifestyle. The masochist transforms this pain into pleasure, while the sadist allows the administration of pain to produce its own fulfilling forms of pleasure. It is as intense as it sounds. The submissive does whatever the Dominant asks: The submissive looks to the Dominant for complete and utter control, as the Dominant looks to the submissive for complete and utter obedience. There is frequently overlap between the roles of Dominant and Sadist, just as there is between masochist and submissive.

Most men I think are excited by the porn or other fetish desires. There is a rise in women who cheat. Even though I am submissive I must be in the minority since I am not in the least excited by either cuckolding or chastity. If I didn't want sex I don't need a woman not to have sex with so it's something I will never understand. I think it would be more useful if you explore the actual numbers of women who desire it on their own and the other factors such as porn addiction that attract or keep men excited by it.

The main factors of female attraction to men are height and income in my experience and really nothing alters that, I am on the shorter end of the spectrum and again that is something that puts me in the undesirable category. On the other hand I will admit that I am turned off by overweight women which is also something that is not really discussed. Hi Simplistic, don't feel alone here completely, I am on the undesirable short side of life myself. Most women I have ever been with have only done so because of my dominance both in and out of the bedroom.

I am a biker that has gained respect from others as someone best left alone. But, I have never been able to pull in the type of women I desire, andthe ones iI do pull in usually aint the marrying type. But also love becomes a problem that only adds to the senario.

You try to treat a women with some sort of respect and give her space then they start scamming you and cheeting on you I assume because of greed, or what ever they blame it on. Even though you try to keep her pleased in the bedroom, and give her as much as you can that she has been asking for including little sweat gifts like roses, and other small trinkets of appreciation only for her to talk about you behind your back and sleep around. But, when you don't fall in love and keep your feelings bottled up you are accused of being a heartless bastard.

All the while seeing your friends treat women like crap and they can't beat the women away from them, and they stay loyal for ever. So for I start treating the girls like garbage? Because that is the impression the girls have given to me. So sorry about your present situation but you are not short on others going through it also. So what's less known, your allowed both David. You don't have to be sub all of the time, regardless of your personality. You also do not have to be dom all of the time. Some people are better or more comfortable with one than the other, but depending on your mood being able to do either is called a "switch" and perfectly acceptable for men or women.

That's a nice balance Bifftress and safeguards any male who is becoming too submissive in the wrong way. Few marriages seem to have the ideal so it is a case of adjusting. My wife doesn't like to receive but I do. I don't know if she likes to give but has said she is comfortable with it. I am definitely the head but don't force anything. I taught her what to do and it works fine.

You're obviously jaded where women are concerned. You, like so many others, are attracted to the harsher ladies of the world. The become jaded when theyre not the "nice n sweet" type. Seems your post is a substitute for a therapist and really has very little to do with the OP. N where exactly do you think the size of women fits into the OP??

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We have wonderful vanilla sex as it seems to be referred to, but have always been open to experiment with positions, places, and such. Question Submitted by Greatguy87 on May 10, - 1: Yes, men really know how to do things! Sweetums, you're in the majority. While I don't think bdsm is wrong, for either of you, I do think that entering into it with this man does not sound healthy for either of you at this point.

Being a Domme myself, i find much of your diatribe pointless as far as this OP is concerned. Your first lesson to learn would be to stop whining and change your outlook. What woman would be interested in a man who is so negative and cant look past his negative history with other women? Thats your biggest issue when viewing women. You think we're all alike, n think that all of our preferences are the same.

The myth is that it’s abusive. Actually it’s about trust and communication.

Many people observe the sadomasochistic side of BDSM with little or no understanding of exactly how it works. Why would someone want to. Dominance and submission (also called D/s) is a set of behaviours, customs, and rituals .. A submissive (masochist) discovers (or creates) a reluctant Sadist.

I personally am not the shallow, self centered type of woman you think we all are. Im attracted to personality. The most popular model or actor can be the ugliest person in the world because of a terrible personality. In response to your claim that we FemDoms are prostitutes, the majority of us do not receive pay. We are in the lifestyle because we enjoy it. Nor do most ProDoms participate in sexual acts during sessions. Perhaps your poor outlook on women is the main reason you've not found one interested in you. I could have become a submissive male but thankfuly I didn't.

I think the male is the head and the wife adjusts to that. I am switched on by a woman with a paddle though. To me it's part of sex not a thing to change my behaviour into submissive. I've trained my wife to do it and it works for us. I probably would have been a client for this, until I met my wife that is. A lot of the behaviour is twisted I think. I have learned to lead in the right way. I still ask my wife to spank me though which she is comfortable with but I would never go outside marriage for sex.

I definitely fall into the female domme category, although I'm not a professional and have only met one man in real life who was happy to let me take charge in the bedroom sometimes. I blame my interests on growing up in a big family and having to fight for any parental attention. I'm not that dominant outside of the bedroom and have a normal career and 'outside persona', although I am fairly controlled and self disciplined and would be happier being in charge of a household.

I'm not attracted to obviously submissive men. I think half the attraction is knowing you have control over an alpha male. I want to control a man who is worth controlling. Otherwise, where is the challenge? My ideal man is someone powerful and respected in public who then drops to his knees the moment he walks though the front door and allows me to take over. The contrast excites me. I 'am the sub the power reversed a few yrs back when due to medical reasons incontinence set in,She said you have to go back in diapers to keep her dry. That is 1 reason and her always being the more dom person.

I want to say there is no spanking or rough stuff. She could be what a closet submissive likes. I have this streak and was reared by a single mother who was passive aggressive. Sex can make people feel happiness and I wanted o be there to help.

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This may have led to my desire for older women who wanted an uninhibited lover. Whatever she wanted I wanted to do. Few women were found and now I am just too old to be much good. Came to this page because I was wondering: My BF and his brother are both submissive. One is far more than the other. The mother was vocal and dominant. So is the submissive man related to the Oedipal complex? Wanting mommy's attention and punishment? But what I'm getting to is that when my relationship started, I wasn't all that dominant by over the years my personality has grown stronger and more intense.

Take no bullshit whatsoever. How can you be a man and be WEAK? So as Queen you would treat your knights, gladiators and guards as jesters, not my idea of a good Fem Dom unless your Subs want the humiliation No wonder those poor Male Subs from previous comments have so many problems.

Subservient is not Weak, in fact quite the opposite. They are strong of mind, and spirit. They can hold their tempers at the drop of a hat,even when you probably cannot. They control the total of body as well, not necessarily menial but what they like is considered demeaning to many. They can treat you as a queen even when you think nothing of them or take them as weak and for granted. They give up a good amount of will, to release the pressure of life's burdens.

They don't need to make the decisions because the Dom already knows what they want, from previous discussion. She can't stand weak men lol good for her, I can't stand people who believe that being a man means acting demanding and aggressive all the time or even act rudely to others and if he doesn't then he doesn't deserve respect or be treated as a person, now that's what is real sick and not being a masochist. My boyfriend is a masochist and I've meet a lot of men who like to be submissive or humiliated and for me they aren't weak at all, they are more brave and strong that most men who would just complain and whine about a little pain like babies or those who feel inferior when a woman is stronger or better than them on something and get scared of the woman, so sad lol.

I just felt that someone had to say it. It's true, and cruelty should only be cruel under the subs control not the option of the FemDom or Dom to control in general.

People should learn the difference between misogyny and sadism.

I have just met a MAN who wants to be the sub and I have been told why and understand! So stimulating as someone new to the lifestyle I have enjoyed ever minute of play and it makes him no less of a man in my eyes. And I think that is all that matters. Hell leave me alone it is no different than being the sub!

Submissive women are not subservient. My husband and I have lived a marriage in which I lead every aspect of are relationship. I make all decisions from household finances to sex when I want it and when he gets it. Interestingly enough this is what he asked for 10 years ago. He wanted a dominate wife and told me one night after a few glasses of wine. I was a little surprised,actully a lot surprised.

I had not seen this in him before. So read a couple of books on female led relationships and still read a lot of blogs on FLRs. I began leading him in the ways I learned and although it was very auckward at first I began to enjoy the position of power I had. We have been together now for 31 years and both of us not been happier in our marriage. Many of our friends and some family know of our wife led marriage. In public my husband addresses with complete authority and lets me do the speaking.

I ment are you stronger than him physically. If a woman was physically stronger than me, I'd date her. Of course the Dominants in the experience of this writer may have abuse or some past problems - it's Psychology Today. I dislike the hint that we are Dominant and into BDSM as the result of abuse or something lacking in our childhood.

That's the same rubbish I heard about the gay community years ago. I'm troubled by the author generalizing from his patients to the population at large. Did Freud teach you nothing, Mr. Treating BDSM and kink as "bad" or "sick" oversimplifies the phenomena. And the notion that all submissive men are passive or weak is laughable. My evidence is, of course, anecdotal, and based solely on my own experience as a lifestyle dominant woman. The submissive men I know are mostly professionals doctors, lawyers, business professionals, airline pilots.

Almost all are well-employed and, to the casual observer, "manly" in the way society describes that word.